In this episode, Joel discusses his work as a police officer, and his decision to become trained as a psychologist, in hopes of making an even greater impact on the people he arrested. Joel discussed his work in Crisis Intervention, working with homeless populations and the training of police officers to work more effectively with mentally ill citizens. He discusses his work with the West Coast Post-trauma Retreat where he works with first responders in an effort to prevent suicide. Suicide is the leading cause of death for first responders and more officers die from suicide than all other factors combined. He explains the reticence of first responders to engage in mental health treatment, and the challenges police officers have in finding a supportive clinician. He and I discussed the murder of George Floyd, the effect on the relationship between police officers and the community, and the subsequent impact on police officers. He discusses the psychological impact of the riots that followed Floyd’s death. We also discussed the dynamics that may have played into the lack of action of the other officers at the Floyd incident. We discuss the research of The Milgram Shock Experiment and the Stanford Prison Study where “normal” individuals acted in ways that most would have said they would not have acted but did so in relation to context and authority. Joel discussed his most recent focus on building resiliency in police officers, and training them as part of the Police Academy, as well as training seasoned officers in connecting to their meaning, influenced by Victor Frankel’s book, Man’s Search for Meaning. He explained that they also teach the difference between compartmentalization, which is necessary and adaptable on the job, as opposed to suppression, which could lead to bottling up and later spilling over of emotions which could affect a responder’s personal and professional life. Joel Fay, Ph.D. is a retired police officer who proudly served the force for over 30 years and made a career change, obtaining his Doctorate in Psychology. He now has his own private practice, is the lead clinician for West Coast Post-Trauma Retreat (WCPR), and is the co-founder of the First Responder Support Network, where he is currently the Clinical Director. He also teaches Crisis Intervention Training across California, is the co-author of Counseling Cops, and the author of many articles about emergency service stress. In his private practice, he specializes in working with emergency responders from many different organizations. Dr. Fay has received many awards for his amazing work, including the California Psychological Association 2007 Humanitarian Award and the American Psychological Association 2012 award for Outstanding Contributions to the Practice of Policy and Public Safety Psychology.